
Greetings, all! We are a PA 164 city library. As a branch of city government, is public notification/comment a required piece of our budget approval process? We've done this in the past but the process is so much more under the control of the city, changes are sometimes made after our board has approved the library's budget. Can anyone shed more light on the process, how it is handled by your library and municipality if you are a city library? Any help will be greatly appreciated, as well as your time to offer it! Thanks, Sharon Sharon CrotserToy Director St. Ignace Public Library 110 West Spruce Street St. Ignace, MI 49781 (906) 643-8318

Hi Sharon, Hillsdale Community Library is a PA 164 as well and in regards to everything finance, I handle the first admin type half and then the actual finance department handles all of the bank end of things. Our budget is set by myself in steps from Feb-April and then my board and I confer at our annual meeting, also in April. There is public comment available at our library board meeting. After the library and finance confirm everything in April, the finance dept. prepares a presentation pie chart breakdown for our city council. The director has to then confirm and defend if necessary the budget in front of city council. Council can ask questions if necessary. During public comment people could ask questions as well. However if a public comment question is directed at me, I address it at the next library board meeting as an official response. Each departments budget has to go to council to be verified and reviewed as they are our additional governing board. Then after that presentation, it isn't actually accepted/approved as the next FY budget until a May meeting. Between councils April meeting and the May meeting, changes CAN be made but only by budget amendments via council. Luckily one of our board members is a council member as well and can handle those essentially on my behalf. I don't think our council here would make amendments without our knowledge/request. I would hope they know that's a risky choice to do! It would show up on our monthly financial reports with which could garner backlash from us and our loving patrons. Last bit I wanted to say is that our budget is the smallest in the city, and in a sense our revenues and expenditures aren't alarming/eye raising. We receive our yearly taxes, state aid, and monies from in house fees which isn't netting a huge amount more than our expenditures. Could council make adjustments? Sure. But we do get the money anyway and we have no outstanding debt or loans to consider. I would assume our council here just has larger fish to fry. Hopefully any of this made sense, but feel free to reach out if you have any more questions! :) Best, [cid:image001.png@01DAECB9.66DB8BA0] From: Michlib-l [mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org] On Behalf Of Sharon Crotser-Toy via Michlib-l Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 12:24 PM To: michlib-l@mcls.org Subject: [Michlib-l] Budget Approval Process Greetings, all! We are a PA 164 city library. As a branch of city government, is public notification/comment a required piece of our budget approval process? We've done this in the past but the process is so much more under the control of the city, changes are sometimes made after our board has approved the library's budget. Can anyone shed more light on the process, how it is handled by your library and municipality if you are a city library? Any help will be greatly appreciated, as well as your time to offer it! Thanks, Sharon Sharon CrotserToy Director St. Ignace Public Library 110 West Spruce Street St. Ignace, MI 49781 (906) 643-8318 CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipient named above. If you are not the designated recipient, an employee, or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of it or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments and notify the sender immediately via phone, fax, or electronic mail. Thank you.

Hi Sharon, The Howard Miller Library operates the same way as the Hillsdale Community Library as a PA 164 library. I concur completely with Rebekah's comments on the process. All public comments are made at either Library Board meetings or City Council meetings during the budget planning sessions in the Spring. Good luck, Amanda H. [Logo]<https://www.cityofzeeland.com/> Amanda Hanson | Director Howard Miller Library & Community Center 14 S. Church Street | Zeeland, Michigan, 49464 p: 616.748.5901 | c: 616.368.9567 e: ahanson@cityofzeeland.com | w: www.cityofzeeland.com<http://www.cityofzeeland.com/> From: Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> On Behalf Of Library Director via Michlib-l Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 1:13 PM To: Sharon Crotser-Toy <scrotsertoy@stignacelibrary.org>; michlib-l@mcls.org Subject: Re: [External] [Michlib-l] Budget Approval Process Attention: This email was sent to City of Zeeland / Zeeland BPW from an external source. Please be extra vigilant when opening attachments or clicking links. Hi Sharon, Hillsdale Community Library is a PA 164 as well and in regards to everything finance, I handle the first admin type half and then the actual finance department handles all of the bank end of things. Our budget is set by myself in steps from Feb-April and then my board and I confer at our annual meeting, also in April. There is public comment available at our library board meeting. After the library and finance confirm everything in April, the finance dept. prepares a presentation pie chart breakdown for our city council. The director has to then confirm and defend if necessary the budget in front of city council. Council can ask questions if necessary. During public comment people could ask questions as well. However if a public comment question is directed at me, I address it at the next library board meeting as an official response. Each departments budget has to go to council to be verified and reviewed as they are our additional governing board. Then after that presentation, it isn't actually accepted/approved as the next FY budget until a May meeting. Between councils April meeting and the May meeting, changes CAN be made but only by budget amendments via council. Luckily one of our board members is a council member as well and can handle those essentially on my behalf. I don't think our council here would make amendments without our knowledge/request. I would hope they know that's a risky choice to do! It would show up on our monthly financial reports with which could garner backlash from us and our loving patrons. Last bit I wanted to say is that our budget is the smallest in the city, and in a sense our revenues and expenditures aren't alarming/eye raising. We receive our yearly taxes, state aid, and monies from in house fees which isn't netting a huge amount more than our expenditures. Could council make adjustments? Sure. But we do get the money anyway and we have no outstanding debt or loans to consider. I would assume our council here just has larger fish to fry. Hopefully any of this made sense, but feel free to reach out if you have any more questions! :) Best, [cid:image001.png@01DAECBB.25E958A0] From: Michlib-l [mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org] On Behalf Of Sharon Crotser-Toy via Michlib-l Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 12:24 PM To: michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:michlib-l@mcls.org> Subject: [Michlib-l] Budget Approval Process Greetings, all! We are a PA 164 city library. As a branch of city government, is public notification/comment a required piece of our budget approval process? We've done this in the past but the process is so much more under the control of the city, changes are sometimes made after our board has approved the library's budget. Can anyone shed more light on the process, how it is handled by your library and municipality if you are a city library? Any help will be greatly appreciated, as well as your time to offer it! Thanks, Sharon Sharon CrotserToy Director St. Ignace Public Library 110 West Spruce Street St. Ignace, MI 49781 (906) 643-8318 CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipient named above. If you are not the designated recipient, an employee, or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of it or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any attachments and notify the sender immediately via phone, fax, or electronic mail. Thank you.

Hello Sharon: I will be happy to send you some information separately 😊 Clare Clare D. Membiela, MLS, J.D. Library Law Consultant Library of Michigan MembielaC@michigan.gov<mailto:MembielaC@michigan.gov> 517-335-8132 The research and resources above are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. “the State may not, consistently with the spirit of the First Amendment, contract the spectrum of available knowledge.” Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 482 (1965). Nourishing Michigan’s Future during the summer! Find a Summer Food Service Program site nearest you and encourage Michigan’s children to Meet Up and Eat Up! www.michigan.gov/meetupeatup<http://www.michigan.gov/meetupeatup> [cid:image001.png@01DAECBB.D4A12120] From: Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> On Behalf Of Sharon Crotser-Toy via Michlib-l Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 12:24 PM To: michlib-l@mcls.org Subject: [Michlib-l] Budget Approval Process CAUTION: This is an External email. Please send suspicious emails to abuse@michigan.gov<mailto:abuse@michigan.gov> Greetings, all! We are a PA 164 city library. As a branch of city government, is public notification/comment a required piece of our budget approval process? We've done this in the past but the process is so much more under the control of the city, changes are sometimes made after our board has approved the library's budget. Can anyone shed more light on the process, how it is handled by your library and municipality if you are a city library? Any help will be greatly appreciated, as well as your time to offer it! Thanks, Sharon Sharon CrotserToy Director St. Ignace Public Library 110 West Spruce Street St. Ignace, MI 49781 (906) 643-8318

Hello Again!: Just as an FYI - PA 164 is an expansive establishment law and the two city library types included under 1877 PA 164 have somewhat different relationships with the municipality. Most PA 164 libraries do NOT legally have to have their budgets approved by their cities, so they would have a separate budget process. However, depending on which part of PA 164 you are established under, and /or any agreements made with your city for budget/financial support, libraries may differ. ALL government entities - including public libraries- are required to comply with The Budget Hearings of Local Government Act https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-Act-43-of-1963-2nd-Ex... which requires a public hearing before the approval of the budget. Please check your individual establishment and consult your attorney to determine your library's budgetary requirements. Take care! Clare Clare D. Membiela, MLS, J.D. Library Law Consultant Library of Michigan MembielaC@michigan.gov<mailto:MembielaC@michigan.gov> 517-335-8132 The research and resources above are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. "the State may not, consistently with the spirit of the First Amendment, contract the spectrum of available knowledge." Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 482 (1965). Nourishing Michigan's Future during the summer! Find a Summer Food Service Program site nearest you and encourage Michigan's children to Meet Up and Eat Up! www.michigan.gov/meetupeatup<http://www.michigan.gov/meetupeatup> [cid:image001.png@01DAECBC.4C603070] From: Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> On Behalf Of Sharon Crotser-Toy via Michlib-l Sent: Monday, August 12, 2024 12:24 PM To: michlib-l@mcls.org Subject: [Michlib-l] Budget Approval Process CAUTION: This is an External email. Please send suspicious emails to abuse@michigan.gov<mailto:abuse@michigan.gov> Greetings, all! We are a PA 164 city library. As a branch of city government, is public notification/comment a required piece of our budget approval process? We've done this in the past but the process is so much more under the control of the city, changes are sometimes made after our board has approved the library's budget. Can anyone shed more light on the process, how it is handled by your library and municipality if you are a city library? Any help will be greatly appreciated, as well as your time to offer it! Thanks, Sharon Sharon CrotserToy Director St. Ignace Public Library 110 West Spruce Street St. Ignace, MI 49781 (906) 643-8318
participants (4)
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Amanda Hanson
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Library Director
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Membiela, Clare (MDE)
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Sharon Crotser-Toy