Hi All, I'm searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227. Thanks, Joanna Sturgeon Cataloger/Melcat Services Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave. Vicksburg, Mi 49097 269-649-1648
If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out. Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon < jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227.
Thanks,
Joanna Sturgeon
Cataloger/Melcat Services
Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave.
Vicksburg, Mi 49097
269-649-1648
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org
Well, the knife carriers can't claim Second Amendment rights in this case, so I would presume (I'm not an attorney!) that your library board would have the authority to ban knives. Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 (586) 469-6662 mtclib.org "Spero optimus, instruo pro pessimus" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nannette Miller" <erlib.director@gmail.com> To: "Joanna Sturgeon" <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> Cc: michlib-l@mcls.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 10:42:02 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out. Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon < jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227.
Thanks,
Joanna Sturgeon
Cataloger/Melcat Services
Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave.
Vicksburg, Mi 49097
269-649-1648
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
The Supreme Court has ruled that knives constitute 'arms', as protected in the 2nd Amendment, unfortunately. On Friday, October 23, 2015, Donald Worrell <dworrell2@comcast.net> wrote:
Well, the knife carriers can't claim Second Amendment rights in this case, so I would presume (I'm not an attorney!) that your library board would have the authority to ban knives.
Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 (586) 469-6662 mtclib.org "Spero optimus, instruo pro pessimus" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nannette Miller" <erlib.director@gmail.com <javascript:;>> To: "Joanna Sturgeon" <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org <javascript:;>> Cc: michlib-l@mcls.org <javascript:;> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 10:42:02 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library
If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out.
Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon < jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
Hi All,
I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227.
Thanks,
Joanna Sturgeon
Cataloger/Melcat Services
Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave.
Vicksburg, Mi 49097
269-649-1648
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org <javascript:;> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
--
Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com <javascript:;> | elkrapidslibrary.org
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org <javascript:;> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org <javascript:;> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Jordan D. Wright Youth Services Librarian Ferndale Area District Library jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org
Let me correct that statement. It appears as if the wording is vague enough that a case can be made for knives. http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=mjlr On Friday, October 23, 2015, Jordan Wright <jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org> wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that knives constitute 'arms', as protected in the 2nd Amendment, unfortunately.
On Friday, October 23, 2015, Donald Worrell <dworrell2@comcast.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dworrell2@comcast.net');>> wrote:
Well, the knife carriers can't claim Second Amendment rights in this case, so I would presume (I'm not an attorney!) that your library board would have the authority to ban knives.
Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 (586) 469-6662 mtclib.org "Spero optimus, instruo pro pessimus" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nannette Miller" <erlib.director@gmail.com> To: "Joanna Sturgeon" <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> Cc: michlib-l@mcls.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 10:42:02 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library
If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out.
Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon < jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227.
Thanks,
Joanna Sturgeon
Cataloger/Melcat Services
Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave.
Vicksburg, Mi 49097
269-649-1648
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
--
Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Jordan D. Wright Youth Services Librarian Ferndale Area District Library jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org');>
-- Jordan D. Wright Youth Services Librarian Ferndale Area District Library jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org
After I sent my earlier email, I was afraid that might be the case. What's next: RPGs in public libraries? Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 (586) 469-6662 mtclib.org "Spero optimus, instruo pro pessimus" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Wright" <jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org> To: "Donald Worrell" <dworrell2@comcast.net> Cc: "Nannette Miller" <erlib.director@gmail.com>, michlib-l@mcls.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 11:15:54 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library Let me correct that statement. It appears as if the wording is vague enough that a case can be made for knives. http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=mjlr On Friday, October 23, 2015, Jordan Wright <jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org> wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that knives constitute 'arms', as protected in the 2nd Amendment, unfortunately.
On Friday, October 23, 2015, Donald Worrell <dworrell2@comcast.net <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','dworrell2@comcast.net');>> wrote:
Well, the knife carriers can't claim Second Amendment rights in this case, so I would presume (I'm not an attorney!) that your library board would have the authority to ban knives.
Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 (586) 469-6662 mtclib.org "Spero optimus, instruo pro pessimus" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nannette Miller" <erlib.director@gmail.com> To: "Joanna Sturgeon" <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> Cc: michlib-l@mcls.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 10:42:02 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library
If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out.
Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon < jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227.
Thanks,
Joanna Sturgeon
Cataloger/Melcat Services
Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave.
Vicksburg, Mi 49097
269-649-1648
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
--
Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Jordan D. Wright Youth Services Librarian Ferndale Area District Library jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org');>
-- Jordan D. Wright Youth Services Librarian Ferndale Area District Library jordan@ferndalepubliclibrary.org
The Michigan State Police website includes frequently asked questions on firearms and other weapons at http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html. The FAQs are not meant to be legal advice, but it’s a good place to start a discussion either with your library’s attorney or local law enforcement. Here are some excerpts: 3. I recently purchased a double-edged survival knife. Does Michigan law allow me to carry this in my vehicle? MCL 750.227 <http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227> No. A dagger, dirk, stiletto, or double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, cannot be carried concealed on or about a person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in their own home, place of business or on other land possessed by the person. 4. Is it illegal to have a knife with a blade over 3 inches in my possession? MCL 750.226 <http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226> No. Michigan law specifies that a person, with intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, shall not go armed with a knife having a blade over 3 inches in length. The element of intent in MCL 750.226 seems like it would make it difficult to prohibit someone carrying a knife on his belt from being in the library. Again, your local police may see this differently, so it would be best to discuss the matter with them. Kim Koscielniak State Law Library Library of Michigan Michigan Library and Historical Center 702 W. Kalamazoo Lansing, MI 48909 lmlawlib@michigan.gov<mailto:lmlawlib@michigan.gov> 517-373-0630 www.michigan.gov/lawlibrary<http://www.michigan.gov/lawlibrary> From: michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org [mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org] On Behalf Of Nannette Miller Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 10:42 AM To: Joanna Sturgeon <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> Cc: michlib-l@mcls.org Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out. Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org<mailto:jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org>> wrote: Hi All, I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227. Thanks, Joanna Sturgeon Cataloger/Melcat Services Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave. Vicksburg, Mi 49097 269-649-1648<tel:269-649-1648> _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l -- [https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0Bz80TZwblruLTkVaS3dVeTVNMk0&export=download] Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com<mailto:erlib.director@gmail.com> | elkrapidslibrary.org<http://elkrapidslibrary.org>
I suppose that if you allow hunting in the library, then it's reasonable to allow hunting knives. Bob Sweet UMTRI Library bsweet@umich.edu On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Koscielniak, Kimberly (MDE) < KoscielniakK@michigan.gov> wrote:
The Michigan State Police website includes frequently asked questions on firearms and other weapons at http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html. The FAQs are not meant to be legal advice, but it’s a good place to start a discussion either with your library’s attorney or local law enforcement. Here are some excerpts:
3. I recently purchased a double-edged survival knife. Does Michigan law allow me to carry this in my vehicle?
MCL 750.227 <http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227> No. A dagger, dirk, stiletto, or double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, cannot be carried concealed on or about a person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in their own home, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
4. Is it illegal to have a knife with a blade over 3 inches in my possession?
MCL 750.226 <http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226> No. Michigan law specifies that a person, with intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, shall not go armed with a knife having a blade over 3 inches in length.
The element of intent in MCL 750.226 seems like it would make it difficult to prohibit someone carrying a knife on his belt from being in the library. Again, your local police may see this differently, so it would be best to discuss the matter with them.
Kim Koscielniak
State Law Library
Library of Michigan
Michigan Library and Historical Center
702 W. Kalamazoo
Lansing, MI 48909
lmlawlib@michigan.gov
517-373-0630
www.michigan.gov/lawlibrary
*From:* michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org [mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org] *On Behalf Of *Nannette Miller *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2015 10:42 AM *To:* Joanna Sturgeon <jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> *Cc:* michlib-l@mcls.org *Subject:* Re: [Michlib-l] Hunting Knives in the Library
If it's okay to come in with guns I can't imagine knives are not also allowed. I hope I'm wrong. Please let me know what you find out.
Nannette Miller
Elk Rapids District Library
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Joanna Sturgeon < jsturgeon@vicksburglibrary.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I’m searching the Michigan Penal Code for information on carrying knives in public. Specifically, a patron entered the library with openly displayed hunting knives on his belt. Our policy forbids knives, but I was hoping to find a legal reason to forbid them as well. The only sections that seem to deal with knives are 750.226a and 750.227.
Thanks,
Joanna Sturgeon
Cataloger/Melcat Services
Vicksburg District Library 215. South Michigan Ave.
Vicksburg, Mi 49097
269-649-1648
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
--
Nannette Miller | Director
Elk Rapids District Library
231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
participants (6)
-
Bob Sweet -
Donald Worrell -
Joanna Sturgeon -
Jordan Wright -
Koscielniak, Kimberly (MDE) -
Nannette Miller