Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended) What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings??? We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up! Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh! OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off! David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
Hi Dave -- I surely understand. Architects sure do dumb stuff. Listening is not among their skills. I think it would be worth it to install replacement windows in some spots, now that your architect is out of the way. I'm sure it could be done without looking too bad. We have just gotten AC for the first time, and we got a 4-pipe system so that we can make quick changes to solve exactly the problem you describe. This is likely not doable for you. It was a huge, huge, huge mess and very expensive. We also are replacing all our windows, and we made sure to have one window in each area that will open. Here are some handy hints for managing high temps inside the building when it's OK outside. We got to 95 degrees inside several days or a week each summer. It would be 72 outside at 8:00 am but 85 degrees inside, and the temp just soared from there. Like working in a freakin' pizza oven. We never closed due to the heat, and so here's a ton of sympathy from HPL. We feel your pain like few others can. -- IBM and others say you can run PCs continuously as long as the temp and humidity are below 90 or 95. The people won't like it, but don't believe your staff when they piously indicate that they should go home because that's what's best for the computers. We did turn them off in banks and only ran them for 2 hours when it was really bad. -- Some very dramatic staff will indicate that their health is suffering from being in a hot building. They may be right. Everybody's body is different. I let staff take sick time and go if they felt they needed to, as long as we could cover the public service desks. "You have to do what you feel is best for your health". -- We relaxed dress codes, and we allowed water bottles at the service desks, and we allowed those wraps around the neck that welders use in the summer. You can get them at any welding supply store, and probably elsewhere for about $2.50 each. They look like bandanas. Wet them and put them in the freezer, then wear around the neck. They last a couple of hours and they really help. Some staff have several, and keep the refreezing ones in labeled plastic bags in the staff freezer. -- We relaxed or amended some job expectations -- i.e. the pages didn't have to shelve on the upper floors where it was really bad in the afternoon or evening, only in the mornings. -- Get a lot of fans. It's not actually cooler, but the air moving makes staff and customers feel like you're doing something and it does feel better. There are big industrial fans on poles that are used in machine shops and other industries that really move a lot of air. -- Turn out some of the lights. It feels better. -- When it was really awful, I allowed extra cooling breaks in our staff room, which had a winder air conditioner. It helps if people can eat lunch someplace cool. -- Have a plan for cooling over heated customers (to prevent heat stroke) and make sure the staff know the signs and know what to do. (Cool cloths, lie them down or sit them down, call 911 if they're dry and panting because they're already in trouble, cool water to drink, call for a ride home ) (There is an awful story about an old man who walked into the Fremont, MI library with a coat on in the summer, approached the reference desk, and then just dropped like a rock. A woman who works here now was on reference when he died right there in the Fremont library. This is not a story we want to repeat.) -- Acknowledge the situation to the customers -- signs, humor, possibly have fans printed. Agree with them that it's awful. -- Sometimes I bought popsicles or ice cream bars and walked around the whole building passing them out to staff and customers. -- Figure out something to do to fix it. It took us 10 years to figure it out and raise the money, but somehow the situation needs to be addressed. Bring in those HVAC guys and have them figure something out. Good Luck Dave! And I'd seriously look into replacing a few windows. Marty Ferriby, Director Hackley Public Library 316 W. Webster Ave. Muskegon, MI 49440 231-722-8003 At 09:46 AM 2/23/2017, Dave Ewick wrote:
Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended)
What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings???
We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up!
Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh!
OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off!
David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 <mailto:dewick@southfieldlibrary.org>dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
The response to Dave Ewick sounds like an article from the Onion... Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 586.469.6662 worrelld@libcoop.net On 02.23.2017 11:02 AM, Marty Ferriby wrote:
Hi Dave --
I surely understand. Architects sure do dumb stuff. Listening is not among their skills.
I think it would be worth it to install replacement windows in some spots, now that your architect is out of the way. I'm sure it could be done without looking too bad.
We have just gotten AC for the first time, and we got a 4-pipe system so that we can make quick changes to solve exactly the problem you describe. This is likely not doable for you. It was a huge, huge, huge mess and very expensive. We also are replacing all our windows, and we made sure to have one window in each area that will open.
Here are some handy hints for managing high temps inside the building when it's OK outside. We got to 95 degrees inside several days or a week each summer. It would be 72 outside at 8:00 am but 85 degrees inside, and the temp just soared from there. Like working in a freakin' pizza oven. We never closed due to the heat, and so here's a ton of sympathy from HPL. We feel your pain like few others can.
-- IBM and others say you can run PCs continuously as long as the temp and humidity are below 90 or 95. The people won't like it, but don't believe your staff when they piously indicate that they should go home because that's what's best for the computers. We did turn them off in banks and only ran them for 2 hours when it was really bad.
-- Some very dramatic staff will indicate that their health is suffering from being in a hot building. They may be right. Everybody's body is different. I let staff take sick time and go if they felt they needed to, as long as we could cover the public service desks. "You have to do what you feel is best for your health".
-- We relaxed dress codes, and we allowed water bottles at the service desks, and we allowed those wraps around the neck that welders use in the summer. You can get them at any welding supply store, and probably elsewhere for about $2.50 each. They look like bandanas. Wet them and put them in the freezer, then wear around the neck. They last a couple of hours and they really help. Some staff have several, and keep the refreezing ones in labeled plastic bags in the staff freezer.
-- We relaxed or amended some job expectations -- i.e. the pages didn't have to shelve on the upper floors where it was really bad in the afternoon or evening, only in the mornings.
-- Get a lot of fans. It's not actually cooler, but the air moving makes staff and customers feel like you're doing something and it does feel better. There are big industrial fans on poles that are used in machine shops and other industries that really move a lot of air.
-- Turn out some of the lights. It feels better.
-- When it was really awful, I allowed extra cooling breaks in our staff room, which had a winder air conditioner. It helps if people can eat lunch someplace cool.
-- Have a plan for cooling over heated customers (to prevent heat stroke) and make sure the staff know the signs and know what to do. (Cool cloths, lie them down or sit them down, call 911 if they're dry and panting because they're already in trouble, cool water to drink, call for a ride home ) (There is an awful story about an old man who walked into the Fremont, MI library with a coat on in the summer, approached the reference desk, and then just dropped like a rock. A woman who works here now was on reference when he died right there in the Fremont library. This is not a story we want to repeat.)
-- Acknowledge the situation to the customers -- signs, humor, possibly have fans printed. Agree with them that it's awful.
-- Sometimes I bought popsicles or ice cream bars and walked around the whole building passing them out to staff and customers.
-- Figure out something to do to fix it. It took us 10 years to figure it out and raise the money, but somehow the situation needs to be addressed. Bring in those HVAC guys and have them figure something out.
Good Luck Dave!
And I'd seriously look into replacing a few windows.
Marty Ferriby, Director Hackley Public Library 316 W. Webster Ave. Muskegon, MI 49440 231-722-8003
At 09:46 AM 2/23/2017, Dave Ewick wrote:
Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended)
What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings???
We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up!
Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh!
OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off!
David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l [1]
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l [1]
Links: ------ [1] http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
Bear in mind, opening windows presents an opportunity for mold to develop. We had that happen here. My predecessor did not like air conditioning so didn't turn it on and opened the windows. They ended up with a black mold issue that resulted in costly mold abatement, and some health issues for staff. Just my two cents... Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Donald E. Worrell, Jr. < worrelld@libcoop.net> wrote:
The response to Dave Ewick sounds like an article
from the Onion...
Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043586.469.6662 <(586)%20469-6662>worrelld@libcoop.net
On 02.23.2017 11:02 AM, Marty Ferriby wrote:
Hi Dave --
I surely understand. Architects sure do dumb stuff. Listening is not among their skills.
I think it would be worth it to install replacement windows in some spots, now that your architect is out of the way. I'm sure it could be done without looking too bad.
We have just gotten AC for the first time, and we got a 4-pipe system so that we can make quick changes to solve exactly the problem you describe. This is likely not doable for you. It was a huge, huge, huge mess and very expensive. We also are replacing all our windows, and we made sure to have one window in each area that will open.
Here are some handy hints for managing high temps inside the building when it's OK outside. We got to 95 degrees inside several days or a week each summer. It would be 72 outside at 8:00 am but 85 degrees inside, and the temp just soared from there. Like working in a freakin' pizza oven. We never closed due to the heat, and so here's a ton of sympathy from HPL. We feel your pain like few others can.
-- IBM and others say you can run PCs continuously as long as the temp and humidity are below 90 or 95. The people won't like it, but don't believe your staff when they piously indicate that they should go home because that's what's best for the computers. We did turn them off in banks and only ran them for 2 hours when it was really bad.
-- Some very dramatic staff will indicate that their health is suffering from being in a hot building. They may be right. Everybody's body is different. I let staff take sick time and go if they felt they needed to, as long as we could cover the public service desks. "You have to do what you feel is best for your health".
-- We relaxed dress codes, and we allowed water bottles at the service desks, and we allowed those wraps around the neck that welders use in the summer. You can get them at any welding supply store, and probably elsewhere for about $2.50 each. They look like bandanas. Wet them and put them in the freezer, then wear around the neck. They last a couple of hours and they really help. Some staff have several, and keep the refreezing ones in labeled plastic bags in the staff freezer.
-- We relaxed or amended some job expectations -- i.e. the pages didn't have to shelve on the upper floors where it was really bad in the afternoon or evening, only in the mornings.
-- Get a lot of fans. It's not actually cooler, but the air moving makes staff and customers feel like you're doing something and it does feel better. There are big industrial fans on poles that are used in machine shops and other industries that really move a lot of air.
-- Turn out some of the lights. It feels better.
-- When it was really awful, I allowed extra cooling breaks in our staff room, which had a winder air conditioner. It helps if people can eat lunch someplace cool.
-- Have a plan for cooling over heated customers (to prevent heat stroke) and make sure the staff know the signs and know what to do. (Cool cloths, lie them down or sit them down, call 911 if they're dry and panting because they're already in trouble, cool water to drink, call for a ride home ) (There is an awful story about an old man who walked into the Fremont, MI library with a coat on in the summer, approached the reference desk, and then just dropped like a rock. A woman who works here now was on reference when he died right there in the Fremont library. This is not a story we want to repeat.)
-- Acknowledge the situation to the customers -- signs, humor, possibly have fans printed. Agree with them that it's awful.
-- Sometimes I bought popsicles or ice cream bars and walked around the whole building passing them out to staff and customers.
-- Figure out something to do to fix it. It took us 10 years to figure it out and raise the money, but somehow the situation needs to be addressed. Bring in those HVAC guys and have them figure something out.
Good Luck Dave!
And I'd seriously look into replacing a few windows.
Marty Ferriby, Director Hackley Public Library 316 W. Webster Ave. Muskegon, MI 49440 231-722-8003 <(231)%20722-8003>
At 09:46 AM 2/23/2017, Dave Ewick wrote:
Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended)
What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings???
We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up!
Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh!
OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off!
David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 <(248)%20796-4300> dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
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-- Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org
Wow Marty--you really had a problem far worse than what I've experienced. Where I used to work, we too had no windows you could open. I would keep a thermometer near my desk and whenever we approached 80° I could phone "facilities" and they would come over and turn up the air conditioning. Sometimes it really helped, sometimes not. We in the library weren't allowed access to that room. Then they changed the policy, and we had to notify them via a computer program. Not only did it take three times as long as the old phone call--passwords, selecting our complaint from a list of about 100 possible problems, etc., then typing in the specific message, but I remember one time when I was directed by my boss to send in a "trouble ticket" about the heat. It was a Tuesday morning. We all agreed that it stayed hot all day. Thursday morning they sent me a response saying they will send someone over later that day. Boy--that's sure helpful to all the people sweltering two days earlier! On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Nannette Miller <erlib.director@gmail.com> wrote:
Bear in mind, opening windows presents an opportunity for mold to develop. We had that happen here. My predecessor did not like air conditioning so didn't turn it on and opened the windows. They ended up with a black mold issue that resulted in costly mold abatement, and some health issues for staff. Just my two cents...
Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Donald E. Worrell, Jr. < worrelld@libcoop.net> wrote:
The response to Dave Ewick sounds like an article
from the Onion...
Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043586.469.6662 <(586)%20469-6662>worrelld@libcoop.net
On 02.23.2017 11:02 AM, Marty Ferriby wrote:
Hi Dave --
I surely understand. Architects sure do dumb stuff. Listening is not among their skills.
I think it would be worth it to install replacement windows in some spots, now that your architect is out of the way. I'm sure it could be done without looking too bad.
We have just gotten AC for the first time, and we got a 4-pipe system so that we can make quick changes to solve exactly the problem you describe. This is likely not doable for you. It was a huge, huge, huge mess and very expensive. We also are replacing all our windows, and we made sure to have one window in each area that will open.
Here are some handy hints for managing high temps inside the building when it's OK outside. We got to 95 degrees inside several days or a week each summer. It would be 72 outside at 8:00 am but 85 degrees inside, and the temp just soared from there. Like working in a freakin' pizza oven. We never closed due to the heat, and so here's a ton of sympathy from HPL. We feel your pain like few others can.
-- IBM and others say you can run PCs continuously as long as the temp and humidity are below 90 or 95. The people won't like it, but don't believe your staff when they piously indicate that they should go home because that's what's best for the computers. We did turn them off in banks and only ran them for 2 hours when it was really bad.
-- Some very dramatic staff will indicate that their health is suffering from being in a hot building. They may be right. Everybody's body is different. I let staff take sick time and go if they felt they needed to, as long as we could cover the public service desks. "You have to do what you feel is best for your health".
-- We relaxed dress codes, and we allowed water bottles at the service desks, and we allowed those wraps around the neck that welders use in the summer. You can get them at any welding supply store, and probably elsewhere for about $2.50 each. They look like bandanas. Wet them and put them in the freezer, then wear around the neck. They last a couple of hours and they really help. Some staff have several, and keep the refreezing ones in labeled plastic bags in the staff freezer.
-- We relaxed or amended some job expectations -- i.e. the pages didn't have to shelve on the upper floors where it was really bad in the afternoon or evening, only in the mornings.
-- Get a lot of fans. It's not actually cooler, but the air moving makes staff and customers feel like you're doing something and it does feel better. There are big industrial fans on poles that are used in machine shops and other industries that really move a lot of air.
-- Turn out some of the lights. It feels better.
-- When it was really awful, I allowed extra cooling breaks in our staff room, which had a winder air conditioner. It helps if people can eat lunch someplace cool.
-- Have a plan for cooling over heated customers (to prevent heat stroke) and make sure the staff know the signs and know what to do. (Cool cloths, lie them down or sit them down, call 911 if they're dry and panting because they're already in trouble, cool water to drink, call for a ride home ) (There is an awful story about an old man who walked into the Fremont, MI library with a coat on in the summer, approached the reference desk, and then just dropped like a rock. A woman who works here now was on reference when he died right there in the Fremont library. This is not a story we want to repeat.)
-- Acknowledge the situation to the customers -- signs, humor, possibly have fans printed. Agree with them that it's awful.
-- Sometimes I bought popsicles or ice cream bars and walked around the whole building passing them out to staff and customers.
-- Figure out something to do to fix it. It took us 10 years to figure it out and raise the money, but somehow the situation needs to be addressed. Bring in those HVAC guys and have them figure something out.
Good Luck Dave!
And I'd seriously look into replacing a few windows.
Marty Ferriby, Director Hackley Public Library 316 W. Webster Ave. Muskegon, MI 49440 231-722-8003 <(231)%20722-8003>
At 09:46 AM 2/23/2017, Dave Ewick wrote:
Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended)
What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings???
We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up!
Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh!
OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off!
David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 <(248)%20796-4300> dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing listMichlib-l@mcls.orghttp://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
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--
Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 <(231)%20264-9979> | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org
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Hi all, My understanding is that HVAC systems, especially in large buildings, create positive pressure so opening windows is just going to let the air out rather than bring outside air in. In designing a new building, from a psychological standpoint, being able to open a window in a secured staff area can been a benefit keeping in mind you will add cost including for the opportunity for security alarm issues. In my previous life as the library’s facilities manager for a couple of years I always carried a digital thermometer/hygrometer that governed all “environmental” complaints. You might have your maintenance person check the set points of the rooms. Otherwise, layer, Dave, layer! Have a nice weekend. --Larry ----------------------------------------------- Larry P. Neal, Library Director Clinton-Macomb Public Library 40900 Romeo Plank Road Clinton Township, MI 48038-2955 USA (586) 226-5011 | (586) 226-5008 – fax | lneal@cmpl.org<mailto:lneal@cmpl.org> 2017 candidate for American Library Association Council From: michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org [mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org] On Behalf Of Derek Barth Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 9:47 AM To: Nannette Miller <erlib.director@gmail.com> Cc: Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] HVAC Rant Wow Marty--you really had a problem far worse than what I've experienced. Where I used to work, we too had no windows you could open. I would keep a thermometer near my desk and whenever we approached 80° I could phone "facilities" and they would come over and turn up the air conditioning. Sometimes it really helped, sometimes not. We in the library weren't allowed access to that room. Then they changed the policy, and we had to notify them via a computer program. Not only did it take three times as long as the old phone call--passwords, selecting our complaint from a list of about 100 possible problems, etc., then typing in the specific message, but I remember one time when I was directed by my boss to send in a "trouble ticket" about the heat. It was a Tuesday morning. We all agreed that it stayed hot all day. Thursday morning they sent me a response saying they will send someone over later that day. Boy--that's sure helpful to all the people sweltering two days earlier! On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Nannette Miller <erlib.director@gmail.com<mailto:erlib.director@gmail.com>> wrote: Bear in mind, opening windows presents an opportunity for mold to develop. We had that happen here. My predecessor did not like air conditioning so didn't turn it on and opened the windows. They ended up with a black mold issue that resulted in costly mold abatement, and some health issues for staff. Just my two cents... Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Donald E. Worrell, Jr. <worrelld@libcoop.net<mailto:worrelld@libcoop.net>> wrote: The response to Dave Ewick sounds like an article from the Onion... Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 586.469.6662<tel:(586)%20469-6662> worrelld@libcoop.net<mailto:worrelld@libcoop.net> On 02.23.2017 11:02 AM, Marty Ferriby wrote: Hi Dave -- I surely understand. Architects sure do dumb stuff. Listening is not among their skills. I think it would be worth it to install replacement windows in some spots, now that your architect is out of the way. I'm sure it could be done without looking too bad. We have just gotten AC for the first time, and we got a 4-pipe system so that we can make quick changes to solve exactly the problem you describe. This is likely not doable for you. It was a huge, huge, huge mess and very expensive. We also are replacing all our windows, and we made sure to have one window in each area that will open. Here are some handy hints for managing high temps inside the building when it's OK outside. We got to 95 degrees inside several days or a week each summer. It would be 72 outside at 8:00 am but 85 degrees inside, and the temp just soared from there. Like working in a freakin' pizza oven. We never closed due to the heat, and so here's a ton of sympathy from HPL. We feel your pain like few others can. -- IBM and others say you can run PCs continuously as long as the temp and humidity are below 90 or 95. The people won't like it, but don't believe your staff when they piously indicate that they should go home because that's what's best for the computers. We did turn them off in banks and only ran them for 2 hours when it was really bad. -- Some very dramatic staff will indicate that their health is suffering from being in a hot building. They may be right. Everybody's body is different. I let staff take sick time and go if they felt they needed to, as long as we could cover the public service desks. "You have to do what you feel is best for your health". -- We relaxed dress codes, and we allowed water bottles at the service desks, and we allowed those wraps around the neck that welders use in the summer. You can get them at any welding supply store, and probably elsewhere for about $2.50 each. They look like bandanas. Wet them and put them in the freezer, then wear around the neck. They last a couple of hours and they really help. Some staff have several, and keep the refreezing ones in labeled plastic bags in the staff freezer. -- We relaxed or amended some job expectations -- i.e. the pages didn't have to shelve on the upper floors where it was really bad in the afternoon or evening, only in the mornings. -- Get a lot of fans. It's not actually cooler, but the air moving makes staff and customers feel like you're doing something and it does feel better. There are big industrial fans on poles that are used in machine shops and other industries that really move a lot of air. -- Turn out some of the lights. It feels better. -- When it was really awful, I allowed extra cooling breaks in our staff room, which had a winder air conditioner. It helps if people can eat lunch someplace cool. -- Have a plan for cooling over heated customers (to prevent heat stroke) and make sure the staff know the signs and know what to do. (Cool cloths, lie them down or sit them down, call 911 if they're dry and panting because they're already in trouble, cool water to drink, call for a ride home ) (There is an awful story about an old man who walked into the Fremont, MI library with a coat on in the summer, approached the reference desk, and then just dropped like a rock. A woman who works here now was on reference when he died right there in the Fremont library. This is not a story we want to repeat.) -- Acknowledge the situation to the customers -- signs, humor, possibly have fans printed. Agree with them that it's awful. -- Sometimes I bought popsicles or ice cream bars and walked around the whole building passing them out to staff and customers. -- Figure out something to do to fix it. It took us 10 years to figure it out and raise the money, but somehow the situation needs to be addressed. Bring in those HVAC guys and have them figure something out. Good Luck Dave! And I'd seriously look into replacing a few windows. Marty Ferriby, Director Hackley Public Library 316 W. Webster Ave. Muskegon, MI 49440 231-722-8003<tel:(231)%20722-8003> At 09:46 AM 2/23/2017, Dave Ewick wrote: Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended) What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings??? We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up! Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh! OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off! David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300<tel:(248)%20796-4300> dewick@southfieldlibrary.org<mailto:dewick@southfieldlibrary.org> P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l -- [https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0Bz80TZwblruLTkVaS3dVeTVNMk0&export=download] Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979<tel:(231)%20264-9979> | erlib.director@gmail.com<mailto:erlib.director@gmail.com> | elkrapidslibrary.org<http://elkrapidslibrary.org> _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org> http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
Another problem with open windows is that little critters can fly in such as bees, flies and even birds and bats. But I do sympathize with you Dave - no one likes to be to cold or too hot. Patty Patty Braden Library Director Romulus Public Library 11121 Wayne Road Romulus, MI 48174 (734) 942-7589 www.romulus.lib.mi.us Serving Romulus and Huron Township ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Neal" <lneal@cmpl.org> To: "Michlib-l" <michlib-l@mcls.org> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 10:23:31 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] HVAC Rant Hi all, My understanding is that HVAC systems, especially in large buildings, create positive pressure so opening windows is just going to let the air out rather than bring outside air in. In designing a new building, from a psychological standpoint, being able to open a window in a secured staff area can been a benefit keeping in mind you will add cost including for the opportunity for security alarm issues. In my previous life as the library’s facilities manager for a couple of years I always carried a digital thermometer/hygrometer that governed all “environmental” complaints. You might have your maintenance person check the set points of the rooms. Otherwise, layer, Dave, layer! Have a nice weekend. --Larry ----------------------------------------------- Larry P. Neal, Library Director Clinton-Macomb Public Library 40900 Romeo Plank Road Clinton Township, MI 48038-2955 USA (586) 226-5011 | (586) 226-5008 – fax | lneal@cmpl.org 2017 candidate for American Library Association Council From: michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org [mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org] On Behalf Of Derek Barth Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 9:47 AM To: Nannette Miller <erlib.director@gmail.com> Cc: Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] HVAC Rant Wow Marty--you really had a problem far worse than what I've experienced. Where I used to work, we too had no windows you could open. I would keep a thermometer near my desk and whenever we approached 80° I could phone "facilities" and they would come over and turn up the air conditioning. Sometimes it really helped, sometimes not. We in the library weren't allowed access to that room. Then they changed the policy, and we had to notify them via a computer program. Not only did it take three times as long as the old phone call--passwords, selecting our complaint from a list of about 100 possible problems, etc., then typing in the specific message, but I remember one time when I was directed by my boss to send in a "trouble ticket" about the heat. It was a Tuesday morning. We all agreed that it stayed hot all day. Thursday morning they sent me a response saying they will send someone over later that day. Boy--that's sure helpful to all the people sweltering two days earlier! On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Nannette Miller < erlib.director@gmail.com > wrote: Bear in mind, opening windows presents an opportunity for mold to develop. We had that happen here. My predecessor did not like air conditioning so didn't turn it on and opened the windows. They ended up with a black mold issue that resulted in costly mold abatement, and some health issues for staff. Just my two cents... Nannette Miller Elk Rapids District Library On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Donald E. Worrell, Jr. < worrelld@libcoop.net > wrote: <blockquote> The response to Dave Ewick sounds like an article from the Onion... Donald E. Worrell, Jr., Director Mount Clemens Public Library 150 Cass Avenue Mount Clemens, MI 48043 586.469.6662 worrelld@libcoop.net On 02.23.2017 11:02 AM, Marty Ferriby wrote: <blockquote> Hi Dave -- I surely understand. Architects sure do dumb stuff. Listening is not among their skills. I think it would be worth it to install replacement windows in some spots, now that your architect is out of the way. I'm sure it could be done without looking too bad. We have just gotten AC for the first time, and we got a 4-pipe system so that we can make quick changes to solve exactly the problem you describe. This is likely not doable for you. It was a huge, huge, huge mess and very expensive. We also are replacing all our windows, and we made sure to have one window in each area that will open. Here are some handy hints for managing high temps inside the building when it's OK outside. We got to 95 degrees inside several days or a week each summer. It would be 72 outside at 8:00 am but 85 degrees inside, and the temp just soared from there. Like working in a freakin' pizza oven. We never closed due to the heat, and so here's a ton of sympathy from HPL. We feel your pain like few others can. -- IBM and others say you can run PCs continuously as long as the temp and humidity are below 90 or 95. The people won't like it, but don't believe your staff when they piously indicate that they should go home because that's what's best for the computers. We did turn them off in banks and only ran them for 2 hours when it was really bad. -- Some very dramatic staff will indicate that their health is suffering from being in a hot building. They may be right. Everybody's body is different. I let staff take sick time and go if they felt they needed to, as long as we could cover the public service desks. "You have to do what you feel is best for your health". -- We relaxed dress codes, and we allowed water bottles at the service desks, and we allowed those wraps around the neck that welders use in the summer. You can get them at any welding supply store, and probably elsewhere for about $2.50 each. They look like bandanas. Wet them and put them in the freezer, then wear around the neck. They last a couple of hours and they really help. Some staff have several, and keep the refreezing ones in labeled plastic bags in the staff freezer. -- We relaxed or amended some job expectations -- i.e. the pages didn't have to shelve on the upper floors where it was really bad in the afternoon or evening, only in the mornings. -- Get a lot of fans. It's not actually cooler, but the air moving makes staff and customers feel like you're doing something and it does feel better. There are big industrial fans on poles that are used in machine shops and other industries that really move a lot of air. -- Turn out some of the lights. It feels better. -- When it was really awful, I allowed extra cooling breaks in our staff room, which had a winder air conditioner. It helps if people can eat lunch someplace cool. -- Have a plan for cooling over heated customers (to prevent heat stroke) and make sure the staff know the signs and know what to do. (Cool cloths, lie them down or sit them down, call 911 if they're dry and panting because they're already in trouble, cool water to drink, call for a ride home ) (There is an awful story about an old man who walked into the Fremont, MI library with a coat on in the summer, approached the reference desk, and then just dropped like a rock. A woman who works here now was on reference when he died right there in the Fremont library. This is not a story we want to repeat.) -- Acknowledge the situation to the customers -- signs, humor, possibly have fans printed. Agree with them that it's awful. -- Sometimes I bought popsicles or ice cream bars and walked around the whole building passing them out to staff and customers. -- Figure out something to do to fix it. It took us 10 years to figure it out and raise the money, but somehow the situation needs to be addressed. Bring in those HVAC guys and have them figure something out. Good Luck Dave! And I'd seriously look into replacing a few windows. Marty Ferriby, Director Hackley Public Library 316 W. Webster Ave. Muskegon, MI 49440 231-722-8003 At 09:46 AM 2/23/2017, Dave Ewick wrote: <blockquote> Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended) What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings??? We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up! Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh! OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off! David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l </blockquote> _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l </blockquote> -- Nannette Miller | Director Elk Rapids District Library 231.264.9979 | erlib.director@gmail.com | elkrapidslibrary.org _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l </blockquote> _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
Hi Dave, As a former library director in IN, I had been in on a new build. When we put in the HVAC, I learned about JACE controllers. It's a computer program that controls the HVAC from my or several selected computers (in case I am away). I can change the set points by tenths of a degree. When I moved here, I found our HVAC maintenance company could install one on our system. Staff tell me if it feels hot or cold in several different areas and the JACE tells me the temperature of the air coming from the vents and the temperature of the area so I can make adjustments. It then controls what the system does to change the temperature to the new settings I put in. We can program the system to turn on and off at desired times of the day. It's well worth the investment. By watching the JACE, I can also troubleshoot problems in various areas of the whole system. Now all we have to do is correct some of the issues from the original installation to make everything work smoother. Thank you architects, and in our case, contractors, for making our jobs so "interesting". I think I have earned an HVAC Engineering degree by now. Good luck to you Dave. Shelley On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Dave Ewick <dewick@southfieldlibrary.org> wrote:
Hi All - just need to vent (pun intended)
What's up with architects refusing to put functional windows in large buildings???
We suffer for about a month each spring & fall when the seasons are changing and we cannot switch quickly from heat to cooling (and vice versa). It was 80 degrees at 8:00 am this morning on our 3rd floor; and once the lights, computers & people add their heat it goes up, up, up!
Changing to cooling for us is a week long process, and we cannot even begin it if there's a chance of another freeze or we could lose pipes, etc. Every fall is the opposite problem - switch too soon and it's hot again. If we could open some windows things would level out. I worry about the health of both staff members and patrons. Argh!
OK - end of rant - thanks for reading. Now to drink some ice water and maybe talk a walk outside to cool off!
David L. Ewick, MLS, MS City Librarian Southfield Public Library 26300 Evergreen Southfield, Michigan 48076 248 796-4300 <(248)%20796-4300> dewick@southfieldlibrary.org P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org http://mail2.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Shelley Williams Director, White Lake Community Library 3900 White Lake Dr. Whitehall, MI 49461 Read Early. Read Often.
participants (8)
-
Dave Ewick -
Derek Barth -
Donald E. Worrell, Jr. -
Larry Neal -
Marty Ferriby -
Nannette Miller -
Patricia Braden -
Shelley Williams