Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality"
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid. I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all. We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access. https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/ Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post. Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library (1st response) Hello - First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage. I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars. As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds. Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library (2nd response) Hello, again - I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I dont believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesnt keep others quiet. I want to say I didnt assume everyones patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I dont live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions. The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words be neutral but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources. This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and Im sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent everyone might just create a collection your community didnt really want or ask for. Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isnt a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasnt a big part of their identity to begin with. The first question shouldnt be How can we welcome a wider swath of the population? it should be How can we better serve OUR community? Sincerely, Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
Hello all, I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either. There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too. Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid.
I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all.
We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/
Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(1st response) Hello -
First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage.
I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars.
As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(2nd response) Hello, again -
I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet.
I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions.
The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.”
This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for.
Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with.
The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?”
Sincerely,
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes. Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession. Amy Nolan Children's Services Supervisor St. Joseph Public Library 269-983-7167 ________________________________ From: Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM To: kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us Cc: michlib-l@mcls.org Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality" Hello all, I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either. There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too. Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:michlib-l@mcls.org>> wrote: Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid. I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all. We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access. https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/ Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post. Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library (1st response) Hello - First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage. I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars. As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds. Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library (2nd response) Hello, again - I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet. I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions. The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.” This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for. Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with. The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?” Sincerely, Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ---------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org<mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org> https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
I would like to second what Amy has said. It can be a fine and hard line to determine, as information can have political ramifications, but librarians are not necessarily to use their job to make a political stance. Everyone should feel welcome in the library, everyone. Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022 On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:09 AM Amelia Nolan via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes.
Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession.
*Amy Nolan*
*Children's Services Supervisor*
*St. Joseph Public Library*
*269-983-7167*
------------------------------ *From:* Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM *To:* kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us *Cc:* michlib-l@mcls.org *Subject:* Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality"
Hello all,
I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either.
There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too.
Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid.
I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all.
We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/
Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(1st response) Hello -
First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage.
I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars.
As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(2nd response) Hello, again -
I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet.
I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions.
The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.”
This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for.
Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with.
The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?”
Sincerely,
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
It has come to my attention that I should clarify my statement that; I agree Amy's statement that libraries are for everyone and no one should be made to feel uncomfortable within this space. Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022 On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:39 AM Kat Boyer <librarykat.15@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to second what Amy has said. It can be a fine and hard line to determine, as information can have political ramifications, but librarians are not necessarily to use their job to make a political stance. Everyone should feel welcome in the library, everyone. Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:09 AM Amelia Nolan via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes.
Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession.
*Amy Nolan*
*Children's Services Supervisor*
*St. Joseph Public Library*
*269-983-7167*
------------------------------ *From:* Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM *To:* kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us *Cc:* michlib-l@mcls.org *Subject:* Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality"
Hello all,
I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either.
There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too.
Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid.
I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all.
We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/
Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(1st response) Hello -
First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage.
I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars.
As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(2nd response) Hello, again -
I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet.
I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions.
The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.”
This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for.
Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with.
The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?”
Sincerely,
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
Interesting discussion! I appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts, experiences and interpretations. You've all inspired me to add my own! First of all, I believe this is an appropriate vehicle for the discussion, and I'm glad it was raised here. Secondly, I have always interpreted my own role in collection development as acquiring the best that's out there. My patrons generally do not have the same access or tools to find out about new titles, formats, resources, etc., that I do, nor do they have the time to take on that level of digging. I do. I'm paid to do just that. I am supposed to be part of the group that brings the world into our small library. In fact, I've used that phrase countless times over the years, "Discover the world at your library", and I've seen countless pairs of children's eyes light up at that thought. It inspires me still, today! Lastly, I see it as my job to provide what I know my community already enjoys and to share with them those gems they might never know of, otherwise. The fact that these may include ideas differing from the community's dominant culture is just a win-win for us all. We can never know exactly what our community members may want, no matter how homogeneous it may appear to be. We offer diversity because human beings are interesting and complex, no matter our outward appearance. It's a celebration of human growth, thought and culture. That's what I think we're about. And everyone is invited to the party! Thanks, again, for raising this topic, and for this platform to share our own. -Sharon On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 12:56 PM Kat Boyer via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
It has come to my attention that I should clarify my statement that; I agree Amy's statement that libraries are for everyone and no one should be made to feel uncomfortable within this space.
Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:39 AM Kat Boyer <librarykat.15@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to second what Amy has said. It can be a fine and hard line to determine, as information can have political ramifications, but librarians are not necessarily to use their job to make a political stance. Everyone should feel welcome in the library, everyone. Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:09 AM Amelia Nolan via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes.
Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession.
*Amy Nolan*
*Children's Services Supervisor*
*St. Joseph Public Library*
*269-983-7167*
------------------------------ *From:* Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM *To:* kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us *Cc:* michlib-l@mcls.org *Subject:* Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality"
Hello all,
I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either.
There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too.
Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid.
I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all.
We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/
Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(1st response) Hello -
First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage.
I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars.
As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(2nd response) Hello, again -
I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet.
I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions.
The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.”
This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for.
Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with.
The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?”
Sincerely,
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Sharon Crotser-Toy Director *Watervliet District Library* 333 N. Main Street Watervliet, MI 49098 269-463-6382 Connects People, Inspires Ideas, Transforms Lives
Hi all! I'd like to take this opportunity to keep this conversation going, but in a way that isn't so reliant on written word, rather spoken. Please consider filling out this super short (6 questions) survey to gauge interest in creating a townhall discussion (or series of discussions) about the topic of neutrality. If you are interested in potentially getting this off the ground, please fill out the survey and you can always email me off-list with ideas/questions. https://forms.gle/hfcAR4pikRx35sZN8 I will apologize now for the repost of this survey to the main michlib, so the broader audience can chime in with this survey too. Be well all, Betty On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 4:02 PM Sharon Crotser-Toy via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Interesting discussion! I appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts, experiences and interpretations. You've all inspired me to add my own!
First of all, I believe this is an appropriate vehicle for the discussion, and I'm glad it was raised here. Secondly, I have always interpreted my own role in collection development as acquiring the best that's out there. My patrons generally do not have the same access or tools to find out about new titles, formats, resources, etc., that I do, nor do they have the time to take on that level of digging. I do. I'm paid to do just that. I am supposed to be part of the group that brings the world into our small library. In fact, I've used that phrase countless times over the years, "Discover the world at your library", and I've seen countless pairs of children's eyes light up at that thought. It inspires me still, today! Lastly, I see it as my job to provide what I know my community already enjoys and to share with them those gems they might never know of, otherwise. The fact that these may include ideas differing from the community's dominant culture is just a win-win for us all. We can never know exactly what our community members may want, no matter how homogeneous it may appear to be. We offer diversity because human beings are interesting and complex, no matter our outward appearance.
It's a celebration of human growth, thought and culture. That's what I think we're about. And everyone is invited to the party!
Thanks, again, for raising this topic, and for this platform to share our own. -Sharon
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 12:56 PM Kat Boyer via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
It has come to my attention that I should clarify my statement that; I agree Amy's statement that libraries are for everyone and no one should be made to feel uncomfortable within this space.
Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:39 AM Kat Boyer <librarykat.15@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to second what Amy has said. It can be a fine and hard line to determine, as information can have political ramifications, but librarians are not necessarily to use their job to make a political stance. Everyone should feel welcome in the library, everyone. Kat Boyer Director Benton Harbor Public Library 213 E Wall St. Benton Harbor, MI 49022
On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:09 AM Amelia Nolan via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes.
Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession.
*Amy Nolan*
*Children's Services Supervisor*
*St. Joseph Public Library*
*269-983-7167*
------------------------------ *From:* Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM *To:* kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us *Cc:* michlib-l@mcls.org *Subject:* Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality"
Hello all,
I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either.
There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too.
Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid.
I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all.
We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/
Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(1st response) Hello -
First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage.
I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars.
As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(2nd response) Hello, again -
I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet.
I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions.
The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.”
This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for.
Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with.
The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?”
Sincerely,
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Sharon Crotser-Toy Director *Watervliet District Library* 333 N. Main Street Watervliet, MI 49098 269-463-6382
Connects People, Inspires Ideas, Transforms Lives _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- -Betty Adams Library Director Leanna Hicks Public Library of Inkster, MI badams@inksterlibrary.org Main Coordinator Dolly Parton's Imagination Library Detroit teamdolly@wayne.edu
Hello everyone, Although the Humanities and Philosophy major in me wants to discuss the content of this conversation so far, I don’t feel this is the most productive way of engaging in the topic at hand. But there is something I would like to address that has yet to be mentioned. What I would like to mention is on the subject of BIPOC in our own community as library professionals. I recognize that I am part of the majority in our profession - white women. However, there are certainly BIPOC professionals that subscribe to mich-lib and are having to see and hear that there are those in our profession who feel their inclusion and visibility - that BIPOC inclusion and visibility - is political. It is not. Diversity, equity, and inclusion are not political positions and prioritizing DEI initiatives is not a political stance. I recognize my privilege in my reaction to these events being anger or discomfort rather than the trauma or exhaustion my BIPOC peers may be experiencing. While our patrons will never see this conversation, it felt important for me to recognize that ultimately this argument boils down to seeing the inclusion of marginalized people and voices as a political position to take. Most of the conversation has been how we engage with this topic to provide a welcoming community for all of our patrons, but for some this conversation looks very different. We can all hang up our name tag at the end of the day, but BIPOC cannot hang up the inclusion of their identities being “politically” debated. I am so thankful for all of the wonderful library professionals across the state who are working to make their libraries more inclusive spaces, both for our patrons but also for our staff. I have met so many of you along my journey so far and I’m grateful for what I’ve learned from you and for the effort and care you bring to our community. The last thing I would like to say is to highlight the importance of equitable representation on the topic of diversity and inclusion. When we are told there are multiple sides, it is important to recognize which voices are speaking on which platforms. It is our responsibility to assure BIPOC and marginalized voices are given equitable weight on the topic of DEI in libraries. Again, I appreciate the work so many of you have done, are doing, and will do to make your spaces more inclusionary. I look forward to watching the way we transform library services together. Warmly, Hannah Stoloff (she/they) Children Services Librarian Clinton Macomb Public Library On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:06 AM Amelia Nolan via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes.
Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession.
*Amy Nolan*
*Children's Services Supervisor*
*St. Joseph Public Library*
*269-983-7167*
------------------------------ *From:* Michlib-l <michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org> on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l <michlib-l@mcls.org> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM *To:* kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us *Cc:* michlib-l@mcls.org *Subject:* Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality"
Hello all,
I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either.
There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too.
Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l < michlib-l@mcls.org> wrote:
Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid.
I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all.
We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/
Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(1st response) Hello -
First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage.
I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars.
As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds.
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library
(2nd response) Hello, again -
I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet.
I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions.
The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.”
This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for.
Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with.
The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?”
Sincerely,
Karyn Ruley Technology Associate
Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ----------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
_______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
-- Hannah Stoloff School of Information stoloffh@umich.edu (248) 762-9885
Extremely well said, Hannah. Reading the posts from the past two days I have struggled with how to articulate exactly what you have said. Thank you from another white woman who is doing her best to recognize and use her privilege for the betterment of all, Jocelyn Jocelyn Levin, MLIS Youth and Teen Services Librarian jlevin@lyon.lib.mi.us Lyon Township Public Library 27005 Milford Rd, South Lyon, MI 48178 248.437.8800 Ext. 615 [ http://www.lyon.lib.mi.us/ | www.lyon.lib.mi.us ] From: "Michlib-l" <michlib-l@mcls.org> To: "Michlib-l" <michlib-l@mcls.org> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:56:30 AM Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality" Hello everyone, Although the Humanities and Philosophy major in me wants to discuss the content of this conversation so far, I don’t feel this is the most productive way of engaging in the topic at hand. But there is something I would like to address that has yet to be mentioned. What I would like to mention is on the subject of BIPOC in our own community as library professionals. I recognize that I am part of the majority in our profession - white women. However, there are certainly BIPOC professionals that subscribe to mich-lib and are having to see and hear that there are those in our profession who feel their inclusion and visibility - that BIPOC inclusion and visibility - is political. It is not. Diversity, equity, and inclusion are not political positions and prioritizing DEI initiatives is not a political stance. I recognize my privilege in my reaction to these events being anger or discomfort rather than the trauma or exhaustion my BIPOC peers may be experiencing. While our patrons will never see this conversation, it felt important for me to recognize that ultimately this argument boils down to seeing the inclusion of marginalized people and voices as a political position to take. Most of the conversation has been how we engage with this topic to provide a welcoming community for all of our patrons, but for some this conversation looks very different. We can all hang up our name tag at the end of the day, but BIPOC cannot hang up the inclusion of their identities being “politically” debated. I am so thankful for all of the wonderful library professionals across the state who are working to make their libraries more inclusive spaces, both for our patrons but also for our staff. I have met so many of you along my journey so far and I’m grateful for what I’ve learned from you and for the effort and care you bring to our community. The last thing I would like to say is to highlight the importance of equitable representation on the topic of diversity and inclusion. When we are told there are multiple sides, it is important to recognize which voices are speaking on which platforms. It is our responsibility to assure BIPOC and marginalized voices are given equitable weight on the topic of DEI in libraries. Again, I appreciate the work so many of you have done, are doing, and will do to make your spaces more inclusionary. I look forward to watching the way we transform library services together. Warmly, Hannah Stoloff (she/they) Children Services Librarian Clinton Macomb Public Library On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:06 AM Amelia Nolan via Michlib-l < [ mailto:michlib-l@mcls.org | michlib-l@mcls.org ] > wrote: Karyn, I would like to thank you for posting your concerns to the listserv that many of us share about the profession becoming too political. I think the fact that many emailed you privately but were afraid to put their names out there speaks volumes. Activism isn't our calling but instead we should continue to provide the public with equal access to information of all stripes and to treat all people with dignity and respect. I believe that is what makes libraries such vital places in a democracy and makes me proud to be in this profession. Amy Nolan Children's Services Supervisor St. Joseph Public Library 269-983-7167 From: Michlib-l < [ mailto:michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org | michlib-l-bounces@mcls.org ] > on behalf of Jennifer Noble via Michlib-l < [ mailto:michlib-l@mcls.org | michlib-l@mcls.org ] > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:31 PM To: [ mailto:kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us | kruley@uproc.lib.mi.us ] Cc: [ mailto:michlib-l@mcls.org | michlib-l@mcls.org ] Subject: Re: [Michlib-l] Discomfort with Wednesday post about "neutrality" Hello all, I don't feel qualified to touch on the Hillsdale article cited, nor really to open up a discussion about racism in general, as a white woman. I would like to respectfully push back on the point raised about community demographics, though. While I agree that we should make sure all patrons can see themselves represented in our materials, and I myself have fallen back on buying "less diverse" titles that I think my community will appreciate more when my budget is tight, I don't think demographics should be a priority consideration when doing collection development. We can all read/watch/listen to and enjoy books and movies about people who differ from ourselves; in fact, I'd say that's frequently the point of fiction, and not uncommon in nonfiction. We don't have to force our patrons to read about topics they have no interest in, but we shouldn't inhibit their imaginations for the sake of hewing strictly to reported demographics, either. There will always be loud patrons who disagree with something we're doing, rightly or wrongly. But there will also always be patrons who silently appreciate that we got that title by a person of color or LGBTQ person or religious person that they were too afraid to request under their own name in case we judged them. Let's not forget the latter group as we shape our collections, programs, and policies. After all, they pay taxes, too. Sincerely, Jen Noble Adult & Teen Services Librarian On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 6:03 PM Karyn Ruley via Michlib-l < [ mailto:michlib-l@mcls.org | michlib-l@mcls.org ] > wrote: BQ_BEGIN Hello to everyone who responded to my post to Kim True. I had sent two more responses that did not get posted, I believe due to an email/subscription mixup. They are below. I continue to get emailed, off-list thank yous and encouragement for what I said, and I appreciate them immensely but REALLY wish someone would post to the listserv so it does not appear I am the only one in the library world with these thoughts. The only time a difference is ever made is when people are vocal and unafraid. I'd also like to say that just because training exists promoting the topics we've been discussing, it doesn't prove they are correct or that they should exist at all. We've seen a couple sources posted to support the topics. I am posting one that does not. It perfectly illustrates that there ARE two sides involved. We are not to be promoting this with other people's tax dollars. Nor would I be posting anything on a library social media page arguing against it. Offer books, documentaries, etc. from both perspectives for your patrons to decide for themselves. And continue to not discriminate when it comes to who has access. [ https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/ | https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/critical-race-theory-fight/ ] Thank you, THIS will be the last of my comments on this specific post. Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library (1st response) Hello - First, I would like to thank everyone for their kind and civil responses. I know this is a delicate subject. That being said, I actually did receive several responses to my post - all of them positive, all of them private. Many unfortunately fear speaking out about this topic when they have a certain view. I wish more would find the courage. I'd like to clarify my use of the word neutral. As libraries, we are funded with taxpayer dollars and are therefore not to take public stances on political issues. This IS a political issue with opposing sides and statistics, some believing that white privilege is not a true concept, that our country is not systemically racist, that "decolonizing" our collections is wrong, etc. Posting about diversity and inclusivity (linked topics) DOES upset a good portion of the patronage whether you agree with the subject and feel it's your mission or not. We have to be mindful that we serve our individual communities and not our own causes with our library positions and other citizens' tax dollars. As long as we are following the ALA guidelines and asking ourselves the questions I mentioned, as well as creating collections that fit our communities and not our own ideals, we are on the right track. It is not our place to tell our patrons what to think or how to behave on the world scale, it is our job to provide them with materials that fit their needs and interests to let them make up their own minds. Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library (2nd response) Hello, again - I feel I need to clarify a couple more things and then I am no longer commenting on this particular post as I don’t believe this is the place for continuous debate. I will remain a voice on the subject and any other if I feel I need to be, and hope the fear of cancellation doesn’t keep others quiet. I want to say I didn’t assume everyone’s patron demographics are majority white. I was originally speaking directly to the OP and took a look at her area. The stats I saw showed the population to be 94% white. I don’t live there, that may not be the most accurate number, but it gave me an idea before I made any assumptions. The ALA Code of Ethics may not use the words “be neutral” but it does use the word unbiased and states that we should “distinguish between our personal convictions and professional duties and not allow our personal beliefs to interfere with fair representation of the aims of our institutions or the provision of access to their information resources.” This type of neutrality is not the neutrality Elie Wiesel spoke of. Our service is to be fair and impartial and I’m sure the majority of the libraries on this listserv would already consider their service as such. But we are not to go looking for problems. If a group feels underrepresented or underserved, they do have some responsibility in bringing it to our attention and they are welcome to make suggestions. Removing certain items from your collection and adding others to represent “everyone” might just create a collection your community didn’t really want or ask for. Please remember people are not defined by their skin color or ethnic backgrounds or sexual orientation. Our experiences may be different or the same for many reasons. Sometimes, there just isn’t a problem. When we insist on highlighting what we believe to be underrepresented groups are we diversifying or dividing? Maybe the group identity you gave them wasn’t a big part of their identity to begin with. The first question shouldn’t be “How can we welcome a wider swath of the population?” it should be “How can we better serve OUR community?” Sincerely, Karyn Ruley Technology Associate Crawford County Library 201 Plum St. Grayling, MI 49738 Phone: 989-348-9214 Fax: 989-348-9294 ---------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list [ mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org | Michlib-l@mcls.org ] [ https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l | https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l ] _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list [ mailto:Michlib-l@mcls.org | Michlib-l@mcls.org ] [ https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l | https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l ] BQ_END -- Hannah Stoloff School of Information [ mailto:stoloffh@umich.edu | stoloffh@umich.edu ] (248) 762-9885 _______________________________________________ Michlib-l mailing list Michlib-l@mcls.org https://mail3.mcls.org/mailman/listinfo/michlib-l
participants (8)
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Amelia Nolan -
Betty Adams -
Hannah Stoloff -
Jennifer Noble -
Jocelyn Levin -
Karyn Ruley -
Kat Boyer -
Sharon Crotser-Toy